80s garbage

Discussion in 'Film & TV' started by Jack Brewhouse, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    I've recently been inspired by the 80s and thought it would be cool to talk about the sci-fi dumping ground that was my favourite decade.
    I loved the super-vehicle shows. My favourite was actually Airwolf but only the first season. It started out well but the second season cut the budget, quality declined and the content suffered. There was a few good episodes but most just didn't use the helicopter, it was just tacked on at the end with stock footage of it blowing up a radio-controlled model.
    As a bikers, I did appreciate Streethawk. It was a little too late in the game and didn't really work, it was a motorcycle version of Knight Rider and while the concept was good it suffered in a few areas.
    I liked 'The Greatest American Hero', that seemed to have potential and 'Highwayman' was interesting too, I think that got cancelled early on.
    Blue Thunder had a great movie, lousy TV show.
    The era was just as Star Wars was becoming huge so there was tons of second rate sci-fi, some good, mostly bad. I liked Battlestar Galactica and remember Buck Rogers being better than it probably actually was.
    It's nice to reminisce...
     
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  2. Elvira

    Elvira Well-Known Member

    I really liked The Greatest American Hero. Refreshingly funny! Highwayman, if this is the one I'm thinking of with Michael Landon?, then I couldn't bear it. Not my thing.
    I absolutely loved Battlestar Galactica. I think all the girls in my class, including myself, fell for either Apollo or Starbuck or for both in my case; I guess I wasn't that picky then.

    Regarding comics, the ones I read you won't be familiar with, as I'm pretty sure they haven't been translated: My favourite though was Mortadelo y Filemón, antiheroes secret agents. In literature, I was devouring E Salgari magnificent adventure collection, and I also read some war books from my dad's library. I loved Sven Hassel WWII collection.
     
  3. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

    I loved Battlestar Galactica!.. so campy, but it still had heart.
    One of only two SF movies from those days that I think stands the test of time, is the first Alien movie (though it came out in 79, I finally watched it in 81... I think). I remember my parents had finally sprung for the cost of one of those movie channels, think it was Spotlight, and I watched Alien at 2 in the morning... I still think that was the best SF movie ever. Sigourney Weaver in her underwear!

    How can you talk about the 80s and fail to mention the second best SF movie ever, Blade Runner! With all the digital movie magic we have now, nothing has approached the Holy Trinity of SF movies... Alien, Blade Runner, and The Thing. Invasion of the Body Snatchers that came out in the late 70s was pretty good too.
     
  4. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    I never felt that Blade Runner lived up to its potential. I know there's a lot of love for that movie but it just didn't work for me. Aliens though had to be the only time in the history of cinema where a good movie has an even better sequel! Shame the following movies weren't so good, I can see the point of them but they just didn't work.
    Battlestar Galactica was a cheap rip-off of Star Wars but it worked, it was perfect for its time. I always wanted the little plastic toy Viper. It had a red missile that popped forwards from the nose but not all the way out. Legend had it that some kid lost an eye to the original version so nothing was allowed to fire missiles anymore. There was a first prototype of Boba Fett that fired a missile from his back and it changed hands for thousands of dollars.
    I don't think Highwayman is the one you're thinking of. It was a man in a big truck that had a helicopter launch out of it. I'm going back a long way but there seemed to be some interesting sci-fi to it. I remember one about a military clone who was hunting the president who he was programmed to kill but actually he was a pacifist and just wanted to warn him. Another one time travelled back to the first nuclear tests. I don't remember much more, it was probably just garbage.
     
  5. Elvira

    Elvira Well-Known Member

    To me the Trinity is Alien, Blade Runner and Logan's Run.
    In my view, Alien is a master piece. Unique in its genre. I personally don’t thing its sequel was as good though.

    I never watched then Highwayman. I was thinking of Michael Landon angel role. That was bad...
     
  6. Sparrow

    Sparrow Well-Known Member

    Logan's Run... totally forgot about that one.
    Sort of comical now that I'm in my "middle years", that when I first watched the movie as a teenager, the ripe old age of 30' seemed impossibly distant. If we're lucky, we don't become our parents, but we do get as old as them! Which makes me think on it; my parents behaved their age and I think got older faster because of it. I still feel young... except when my niece is slaughtering me playing video games!
     
  7. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    Well, in the interest of discussing garbage, how about Batman. There wouldn't be comic-book movies if that hadn't come along and made the whole idea a mainstream success. That scene where the plane is silhouetted against the moon is a work of utter genius, even if much of the film wasn't up to the same standard. It was also the era of 'Back to the Future'. Michael Keaton was much more fun when he was younger, he was great in Beetleguise and Night Shift and it was also the decade where Bill Murray was at his most awesome with Ghostbusters being one of the best sci-fi comedies of all time.
     
  8. Christophe

    Christophe Full Member

    Ahhh the 80s... what a wonderful decade if you were a kid back then. I was ten years old in 1985 and all I can remember is playing outside with my friends, spending lots of time in the children's library and watching the best movies and series ever.
    It was the decade of (in no particular order):
    Tv: Misfits of Science, The powers of Matthew Star, Buck Rogers in the 25th century, Battlestar Galactica, V, Logan's Run, Streethawk, Knight Rider, The Highwayman, Airwolf, Masters of the universe, Thundercats, Ulysses 31, Albator, Goldorak, Les mondes engloutis, Capitaine Flam, X-or, Star Trek (reruns), Star Trek TNG, Amazing Stories, The twilight zone, ...
    Cinema: Explorers, The Goonies, Star Wars(reruns), Flight of the Navigator, Spacecamp, Aliens, Blade Runner, Nightflyers, Invaders from Mars, Starman, The Neverending story, Willow, The dark crystal, Legend, Labyrinth, War games, Short Circuit, Close Encounters of the third kind (70s but frequent showing on tv during the 80s), Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, Piramid of fear (Young Sherlock Holmes), The karate kid, Cocoon, Stand by me, Ghostbusters, ...
    I could go on and on here :) those were the days!
     
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  9. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    I saw an error and fixed your sentence for you.

    Alien was a brilliant sci-fi horror flick, slow moving, thought provoking, more questions than answers. A huge sense of wonder at the darkness of the nature of the world.

    Aliens, was a slapped together fast cheap thrills vietnam guns and war action flick, that wouldn't need a rewrite to reshoot the film along the hochiminh trail. Completely ignores the tone and background of the original.

    It's not a bad film, I own a DVD of it, but I don't have it on my sci-fi shelf, it's on my war movie shelf. As a solo movie it's good (though the directing is lacking and the dialogue sucks) but as a sequel, it's one of the worst.

    *clears throat*

    James Cameron sucks!!!
     
  10. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    The first Alien movie was a good movie but it was just a generic horror slasher dragged into the sci-fi genre. They couldn't have sequelised it without looking to another genre to transpose so they selected a war movie. Why it worked is because it built on the original and added to it by doing something quite different. Look to A3 to see what I mean, they went back to the original format but just shifted the action to a different setting. Utter garbage, it had all been done before, and far better.
    It also worked because it made a point about humanity, albeit a little heavy-handedly.
    The original Alien movie had a lot of problems, the life-cycle of the creature makes no sense, for instance, and plot threads were left hanging at points. It was a good movie but it doesn't belong on a pedestal.
     
  11. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    I couldn't disagree more. I would say that alien is a genre mashup but not slasher film.

    A good sci-fi movie should offer up a lot of questions about the science in the movie, but should also leave a lot of those questions unanswered. A good s
    Sci-fi sequel should answer some of those questions but leave still more unanswered. Aliens doesn't ask or answer a single question (unless you asked how do they convince Ripley to join in again, not a scientific question). It just takes the setting and runs with in in a Vietnam war fashion (I've seen one guy comparing it as the first movie adaptation of starship troopers). A3 is the natural progression of Aliens, "ask no questions I'll give no answers" while sticking with a more jungle combat theme. They seem to hyperfocus of the A2 line "they mostly come at night, mostly" Not a shred of sci-fi. A4 or resurrection, I would again place squarely on switching the genre from horror sci-fi, to jungle war with a hint of horror. A4 attempts to give us more horror but makes sure the jungle war theme is still apparent at least in the action scenes, maybe this is the directors attempt at bringing the series back? And he made so many good films besides.

    Prometheus is the sequel we always deserved, it's back to s cifi. It answers questions left unanswered since Alien and leaves a ton unanswered in its wake. You can even look at it thusly, people hating on it are (I find) typically James Cameron worshippers who feel he can do no wrong , and the first movie was a stepping stone to the messiahed second movie. People who love it are huge fans of the first movie but feel the series took a weird unwarranted detour with part two.
     
  12. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    I think we may, be at a stand off. Maybe in order to see where we come from (as a way to see the other side) we should post our ideals of sci-fi, coupled with our favs of various franchises.

    My top ten iconic sci-fi that set it's parameters that they all should be measured against, and judged by.

    2001 a space Odyssey
    Alien
    Star trek the motion picture
    Interstellar
    Blade runner
    Empire strikes back
    Forbidden planet
    Brazil
    Inception
    Soylent green
    Honorable mentions: gravity, and Pacific rim, for not really being sci-fi

    Wrath of Khan is a better movie, but motion picture is a better scifi
     
  13. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    Prometheus was garbage. 2001 is utter, complete and total rubbish unless you know the code behind it, I do and still think it's massively over-rated. Alien is a horror-movie with attention to detail, ST (the motionless picture) was a poor attempt to drag ST into 2001 territory. Interstellar was another bad movie and I had the end pegged in the first 10 minutes. It felt like the self-indulgent product of a director who's got too used to hero-worship after copying other people's ideas and it just shone out. Blade Runner was ok but not entertaining in the least. Empire Strikes Back was the better of the original movies but Star Wars really isn't good sci-fi. Forbidden Planet, I don't know how old you are but maybe you would need to see that movie in context, now it just looks a bit sad.
    Brazil is good, I actually studied it at school. I'm impressed that you added it if you also liked the other movies on the list. Inception would have been better if it wasn't just a blatant rip-off of various anime shows. I think Christopher Nolan is a bit burnt out. Batman 3 was garbage, the other two were ok but not as good as people say. He completely missed who the character was.
    Soylent Green was ok but Planet of the Apes was the better movie of the period and made a stronger impression. Gravity I won't even watch and Pacific Rim was a movie that requires more than a few beers to get through.
    Wrath of Khan was ok, more Trek than the previous. TMP was arguably better sci-fi but just wasn't a Trek movie.

    I feel that for a movie to be a good movie, it has to actually be a good movie. It has to leave me feeling impressed and entertained, something Interstellar failed on both counts. I can't say I've seen anything that actually impressed me lately. I liked the original Robocop, for instance. Fun movie that broke new ground and had layers that still resonate today. Not many movies can stand up to that now. Ever head of 'Triangle?' Great movie, maybe not strictly sci-fi but a clever premise. If you've not seen it, don't look it up, it will spoil it. Same with 'The Man From Earth.' 'Primer' was good, I liked Ex Machina and just saw 'Logan' and was quite impressed. Not a huge fan of Marvel but that was quite interesting. Predestination was good too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  14. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    Wow...
    Way to throw me for a loop, your hatred of Ridley Scott's masterpiece and adoration for the abomination of James Cameron had me of mind that you are of three varieties. And for that I apologize. (Choice of " exaggerated" colorful descriptions is intentional)

    My hallmark list is also geared toward that, or geared towards more well known works (I am going to have fun talking to you, as well learned in the vastness of movies)

    One, James Cameron fanboy, will immediately add avatar and terminator to your hallmarks of sci-fi list. Clearly this is not you.

    Two, not into core s cifi, but fantasy in space. Also clearly not you.

    Third something different. You.

    In defense of inception. No, inception is no where near a rip off of animes. If anything it's homage to the works of Phillip k dick is mirrored in animes ripping off PKD. This is also evident in the people involved saying as much. Inception also draws a lot from earlier works (also inspired by PKD) like cronenbergs Videodrome (a fav) and gilliams 12 monkeys. (As per Nolan stating how much these two directors inspires his work)

    Sci-fi is so entwined in horror they often coincide in the same movie or book.. the fly (pick a version) the thing (again pick a version but I much prefer carpenters) and even Solent green or blade runner. Trying to claim alien is horror not sci-fi is like trying to claim Frankenstein as gothic but not romantic (as in literary definitions not video store categories) if you hate Prometheus so much I really expected you to be a Cameron worshippers.

    No trek movie is more trek the TMP , or at least from the perspective of star trek viewed from that time. Wrath paved the way for generation, but the movies for generations moved in the direction of more like wrath, action schlock.

    Forbidden planet is the second best adaptation of king Lear (first is a akira kurasawa s Ran) the themes and concepts are still valid today as well as s cifi.

    No star wars isn't good sci-fi. But Empire is, and the only SW movie I'd say is really truly s cifi. But it's also on the list because I was trying to put more commonly known movies, had I known better, it would have been replaced with Solaris (the Russian one not the Clooney one)

    Speaking of space madness, how about sunshine. Okay ignore the bad solution, keep it off the hallmark list, just focus on the space madness.

    Funny you add primer. I thought it would be good if it wasn't blatantly ripping off Lovecraft, and PKD.
    I liked Robocop,

    What about pi?

    Ex machina I saw as the new aged robot movie dawning the new era much like interstellar did for the intrinsic view of creation and astrophysics. (Which is a subset of sci-fi you seem to hate.)
     
  15. Jack Brewhouse

    Jack Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    I don't dislike themes in sci-fi, I look at plot and execution. I liked Terminator very much and was lucky enough to see it in context when it came out and was still a fresh take. Although T2 was a more entertaining movie, I think it failed miserably as a sequel in that it just re-invented the story rather than adding to it. I'm not really a big Cameron fan, he's a bit of a hack. Avatar was just an adaptation of Pocahontas in space with big blue cats.
    I really liked District 9, and all of his subsequent movies. I think he's really close to making a masterpiece one day and his vision in terms of hardware is very on-point. If he ever does this 'Alien' adaptation he's talking about, I think he'll nail it. I also think that Cameron will screw that up with more terrible Prometheus movies.
    Star Wars aren't bad movies, they're just not on-point sci-fi. They do have a point to make and Lucas has an impressive scope to his vision, or at least he did. If you rip into the movies you can find some subtlety but generally they're just popcorn movies. Empire was the best of the original because Lucas just maintained the vision and let professionals do their work, which was exactly what went wrong later. I thought Rouge 1 was a return to form, a darker vision and it actually felt more competent as a movie and actually like you were watching a film set during a time of war. There were problems but I tend to think they weren't so much issues with the direction as with studio intervention pushing for bigger things. That doesn't mean I think the Han Solo movie is going to be a good idea.
    I don't get your love for ST 'The Motionless Picture.' One of the least entertaining movies of all time and also a blatant remake of one of the TOS episodes. Having said that, I liked the tone of the movie, even though it really wasn't Trek. It seemed more concerned with actually looking believable which was nice. Also it probably had the most new ships and designs ever seen in a Trek movie ever. Something went very wrong along the line.
    I like artificial intelligence and Ex Machina was a smart take on the idea. I liked Chappie too but it wasn't the sharpest, Neil Blomkamp has the subtlety of a boot in the face.
    I haven't seen Pi, it's been on my list for years but never got round to it.
    Inception is a ripoff. He took too much from 'Paprika' but essentially he was trying for 2001 and has been chasing his tail on that one ever since. The dream within a dream is taken from the concept of a movie within a movie which Kubrick could do and he just can't, at least not with style and finesse. To each their own, an opinion is like an arsehole, we've all got one, they're all slightly different and it's important that yours isn't a bit crap. So long as you're thinking, you're winning as far as I'm concerned.
     
  16. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    Man I love debating with you, never have I debated with someone so entirely opposite in opinion from me and yet cohesive arguments and marked understanding of the subject.

    I'm at work so let's put a pin in the whole paprika ripped off the same things inception announced it was honoring. I don't have the time right now.

    I think it's pretty coincidental that I also did a report on Brazil. (My opinion the best 80s movie ever, to bring this back to the main topic) I grew up on Monty python, but when I got to meaning of life I notice cracks in the cohesive troupe. Gilliam was my gateway drug to obsessing over directors. Jabberwocky, Fisher king, time bandits, 12 monkeys, and of course, Brazil.

    I liked Chappie,but not enough to rewatch it, and with Ex Machina I don't have too. AI? As in Spielberg, worse movie I've ever watched 4 times. Why so many? Because I Just can't believe Spielberg took and amazing concept from Kubrick, scrapped all but a small segment intended for a 5 min side story and stretched that out Into the entire film.im still trying to rationalize it. It's not even remotely okay even without that knowledge.

    ST TMP is a remake of two TOS episodes. And is comparable to TOS more than any other movie. The movies from there move slowly away from being comparable to any ST series to a point at first contact where they are a completely different set of stories, fast paced action, instead of ST series slow paced sciency stuff. (Though the series also were moving in that direction by that time, just not the same crews.

    Wait you subscribe to the movie within a movie concept of 2001....no wonder you hated it.

    That said it's not given all the praise because of writing talents, it's given it because of cinematography and directing. Kubrick completely rewrote the book on how to shoot a s cifi movie in space. His blueprints are consistently used throughout the industry to a point that if you aren't using his establishing shots, you're not doing it right.

    Ok work.
     
  17. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    Correction, his establishing shot, or ST TMP establishing shot
     
  18. Elvira

    Elvira Well-Known Member

    This is so enjoyable to read. Keep going please...
     
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  19. Bierschneeman

    Bierschneeman Well-Known Member

    Cant tell if you are enjoying the debate, or completely agree with one of us
     
  20. Boreas

    Boreas n log(log n) Staff Member

    I've enjoyed reading the argument, but YOU'RE BOTH WRONG!!!!!!
     
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